[ProAudio] Adding Meta Data
mark whitehouse
mark at procopy.com.au
Fri Nov 5 04:11:41 PDT 2021
Hi brains trust!
I have another customer asking for more metadata to be added to his audio
files as his company requires it for the streaming service (not sure about
that?)
I'm aware of the limitations and restrictions of various formats but
wondering what software people are using these days to include as much data
as possible
He has supplied WAV files and wants Aif, Mp3 and WAV
I've told him about the limitations and that some info may have to be
added manually. but this is what the company has asked for to be included
"in the file"
- composer -
- song titles
- title of the album on which it was released -
- year released- 2021
- track number 1-10
- album art - attached
- producer-
By converting to AIF I've been able to include a fair amount but cant find
a way to add the cover art for example.
any advice would be helpful
regards
Mark
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On Tue, Jun 15, 2021 at 12:01 AM Dan Lavry via ProAudio <
proaudio at bach.pgm.com> wrote:
> Hi Bob,
> I am not designing a mic pre right now, and my interest is not about
> specific micpre. I am interested in noise and distortion of the gear that
> people connect to my converters. My older Lavry Gold was mostly for
> mastering, not tracking. The new Gold (Lavry Savitr) offers very low
> latency and can be used with micpres.
>
> It would be good to to get a sense from ear people, such as yourself,
> about what is needed in terms of noise, for the most extreme cases (highest
> gain), because that is the bottle neck of the noise floor.
>
> I am told here that any fool can come up with 128dBu ein. Some engineers I
> respect would take offense to such comment. I agree that at low gain it
> matters less. But it would be good to know if the 128-130dBu (or whatever
> the state of the art) is limited because we can't do better, or because it
> is good enough for all practical cases. If it is limited by technology, a
> mic designer can look forward to pushing the state of the art. If it is
> good enough, there is no point in improving...
>
> If I get convinced that there is a market for -135dBu, I would consider
> doing so, right after all the other stuff I want to do. My last project
> took me 3 years. Doing a -135dBu will take a year or more. I have other
> things on my plate.
>
> I see the new developments regarding digital microphones, based on one bit
> modulator. The cable carries one bit digital, and some very new IC's
> provide decimation via 4 or 5 pole filter. I saw the data and specs. So far
> it is far from state of the art, and aimed mostly at mass production lower
> cost stuff.
>
> I can't comment about the mic quality, but i see much data related to the
> IC's involved. one bit (at the present day upsampling rate) and 5th order
> is 90's technology. It may be fine for many uses, but the results are not
> state of the art...
>
> I do expect the digital mics IC's to improve in the future. The concepts
> are there, such as multibit and faster clock. And it may be that sigma
> delta will be surpassed. I can't predict...
>
> Did you try to use digital mics? If so, what do you think?
>
> Regards
> Dan Lavry
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Bob Katz via ProAudio <proaudio at bach.pgm.com>
> Date: 6/14/21 7:42 AM (GMT-08:00)
> To: proaudio at bach.pgm.com
> Subject: Re: [ProAudio] Microphones question
>
> Dan: As you can see, there are so many variables, that all we can do is an
> approximation using 150 ohms, in order to come up with an EIN value for the
> preamp, which will be an approximation. Feel free to specify alternate EIN
> values in the preamp spec sheet in addition to the widely-accepted 150
> ohms, for example, with 50 ohm source at 40 dB gain. Maybe it will help
> characterize your preamp better to the reader. Maybe someone will discover
> that all microphones should have a lower output impedance to get better
> performance.
>
> But as Scott pointed out, why not eliminate the issues and go with a
> digital output microphone. My concerns there are jitter. But there are ways
> around that with a superior PLL at the receiving end.
>
>
>
> Best wishes,
>
>
>
> Bob
>
>
>
>
> On 6/11/21 10:49 PM, Dan Lavry via ProAudio wrote:
>
> Hi Bill,
>
> I am not trying to change the standard. Certainly not before I have the
> understanding of what is going on. Of course in an ideal world, each mic
> would come with an impedance information. In a somewhat less ideal world,
> each mic would come with, at least, the best resistor value. But here we
> are stuck to the "typical" old dynamic mic.
>
> I know that most people don't understand technical details, and it will
> confuse customers. But I am not talking to customers here, or level playing
> field. I asked the opinion of mic experts. I want to know what real
> impedance levels are. That is really all I want to know. So far, I learned
> about the 150 Ohm relation to the old dynamic. There must be more
> information, I thought I would start here.
>
> Thanks for all the comments
>
> Dan Lavry
>
>
> On 6/11/2021 6:47 PM, Bill Whitlock via ProAudio wrote:
>
> How would you propose testing and specifying equivalent input noise for
> mic preamps?
>
> Using the 150 Ω dummy source at least levels the playing field, even
> though it's not accurately predictive for all mics. Specifying e and i
> noise separately (and their own spectrum, if you're going to be rigorous)
> will further confuse buyers - most of whom can barely understand why a
> shorted input is unrealistic.
>
> As I recall from my tests of the SM57, its impedance varied from under 150
> Ω at very low frequencies to over 300 Ω at resonance - and continued to
> rise at higher frequencies. I'll try to find the data - I did the tests as
> research before writing Jensen AN-005 about mic splitters.
>
> If you want to change this, I'd encourage you to join an AES standards
> committee and make your case. Membership in working groups is open to
> all. Working group SC-05-05 is currently trying to change the ways
> equipment manufacturers describe inputs and outputs - in the interests of
> avoiding interoperability issues and unexpected results.
>
> Bill Whitlock
> AES Life Fellow
> Ventura, CA
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dan Lavry via ProAudio <proaudio at bach.pgm.com>
> <proaudio at bach.pgm.com>
> To: crispin at crookwood.com; proaudio at bach.pgm.com
> Sent: Fri, Jun 11, 2021 6:24 pm
> Subject: Re: [ProAudio] Microphones question
>
> Yes of course the input noise has to be taken into account AFTER
> amplification. So say a micpre has 120dBu noise (referenced to the
> input), with say 60dB gain the noise is at 60dBu. That is easy to
> measure and hear...
>
> My point of interest was not about measuring microphones. But we have
> dynamic, ribbon and condenser with phantom, and a wide range of
> implementations in each category. So the use of one value resistor seems
> to be arbitrary. I mentioned earlier that the input noise is made of
> both noise voltage and noise current components. The noise current
> (today's technology) will have low impact for 150 Ohms resistor. So why
> is the resistor there? The answer is to give us a better idea of how the
> micpre works with a mic instead of a short. And so we lump all mics into
> a simple model. A 150 Ohm resistor.
>
> I think we should remove that 150 Ohm resistor. The resistor noise is
> -130.9dBu (room T). If future technology will enable a shorted input
> micpre to reach 130dBu noise (referenced to input with acceptable gain),
> the outcome with 150 Ohm is -127.4dBu. Further down the line,135dBu
> noise (referenced to input) only improves the outcome to -129.5dBu.
>
> I just wonder if there is some information about the real impedance of
> real mics including different types relative to that 150 Ohm. It would
> be good to have some better detail...
>
> Regards
>
> Dan Lavry
>
> On 6/11/2021 1:32 PM, Crispin HT wrote:
> > I'm not a mic expert, but in designing preamps over the years, we’ve
> found that the EIN of most mics sits around the -118 to -122dB mark.
> >
> > The relevance of this, is that you need to amplify a mic, and it's noise
> to use it. Often quiet mics have low outputs, so need to be amplified
> more, and the real test of a mic pre's EIN is not at 60dB gain, getting an
> EIN of better than -124dB at gains around the 20-40dB.
> >
> > Hope this helps.
> >
> > Kind Regards
> > Crispin Herrod-Taylor
> > Managing Director, Crookwood
> > www.crookwood.com
> > Tel: +44 (0)1672 811 649
> > Mobile:+44(0)7910 637 634
> >
> > Sign up for our great newsletter here! and keep up to date with the
> audio world
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ProAudio <proaudio-bounces at bach.pgm.com> On Behalf Of Dan Lavry
> via ProAudio
> > Sent: 11 June 2021 20:44
> > To: proaudio at bach.pgm.com
> > Subject: Re: [ProAudio] Microphones question
> >
> > My question is about mic output impedance, in relation to noise:
> >
> > Both the mic and the micpre contribute to noise. The micpre generates
> some noise voltage which can be measured by replacing the mic with a short
> (0 Ohm). But there is also mipre generated noise current, which is no
> problem for 0 Ohm, but real mics have some impedance...
> >
> > At some point, it was decided to model a mic noise with replacing the
> mic with 150 Ohm resistor. I am not proposing to change it, just trying to
> understand why 150 Ohm.
> >
> > The value 150 Ohm makes 1.568nV/sqrtHz (at room temp), so for 20H-20KHz
> noise voltage of .225uV. Given that we are interested in noise power, we
> can use the dBu scale to realize that the resistor itself sets a limit on
> the noise floor at -130.9dBu. But say the impedance is 1K, then we have
> -122.8dBu.
> >
> > I assume that the resistor modeling is a simplification. I would be
> interested in comments from the mic experts here.
> >
> > Thank You
> >
> > Dan Lavry
> >
> >
> > --
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> --
>
>
>
> If you want good sound on your album, come to
> Bob Katz 407-831-0233 DIGITAL DOMAIN MASTERING STUDIO
> Author: *Mastering Audio*Digital Domain Website <https://www.digido.com/>
>
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