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<div>Increasing the bandwidth comes with increased noise. It is true for converters, analog amplifiers and every thing.</div><div>Assuming the simple case of random flat noise, doubling the bandwidth increase noise by near 3dB. </div><div>The argument is that you don't hear the noise above hearing (say above 20Khz), so why care?</div><div>Let's look at harmonics, and at noise picked up on analog cables. Let's focus on the energy above hearing. Can that cause a probem? Not an issue when rhe device processing the signal (DA, power amp, speaker...) is perfecty linear. But non linearity makes some of that high frequency energy find its way to the hearing range (intermodulation generates sums, differences with integer multiples...).</div><div>How big a problem is it? I live it up to the good well trained ears. </div><div>Personaly, I think it would be dumb to consider 1Ghz bandwidth for audio. The old hifi standard was 20-20Khz. I see a couple of reasons to stay away from excessive bandwith, but cutting it short, at 96KHz sampling, you have around 20Khz audio and 20-28Khz region that you wish to have little energy, to overcome possible audible non linearity of the next devices. At 192Khz sampling, you have 60-70KHz of un needed bandwith...</div><div>The main reason why people don't encounter much of what I described is most mics provide a lot protection. 20KHz mic will make sure that energy will be removed from the above hearing zone (before encountering non linearity). So why 192Khz or higher? If you can't hear it, and your dog can't either...</div><div><br></div><div>Regards</div><div>Dan Lavry</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div id="composer_signature"><div style="font-size:88%;color:#364f67" dir="auto">Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone</div></div><br><br>-------- Original message --------<br>From: Chuck Zwicky via ProAudio <proaudio@bach.pgm.com> <br>Date: 2/12/20 8:24 AM (GMT-08:00) <br>To: Bob Katz <bobkatz@digido.com>, proaudio@bach.pgm.com <br>Subject: Re: [ProAudio] [ProAud] The High-Resolution Challenge <br><br><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"><div class=""><div class=""></div></div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="">On Feb 11, 2020, at 13:28, Bob Katz via ProAudio <<a href="mailto:proaudio@bach.pgm.com" class="">proaudio@bach.pgm.com</a>> wrote:</div><div class=""> J. R. Stuart and P. G. Craven, “The Gentle Art of Dithering” J. Audio Eng. Soc., vol. 67, no. 5, pp. 278–299, (2019 May.). DOI: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://doi.org/10.17743/jaes.2019.0011">https://doi.org/10.17743/jaes.2019.0011</a>he points out on page 290 the number of decimators and upsampling filters that occur in typical chip-based converters. And that these stages are not dithered. And that there are fewer of these stages when the converters are used at a higher sample rate. Smoking gun.... </div><div class=""><div class="">BK<br class=""></div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div>If you look at the specs for converter chips themselves, you will see that the noise and distortion figures are higher when used at the multiple rates (88.2, 96, 176.4, 192) than they are at 44.1 or 48kHz<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">“Smoking gun" indeed.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">-CZ<br class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""><div class="">
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class=""><a href="http://www.zmix.net" class="">http://www.zmix.net</a><br class=""><br class="">http://www.allmusic.com/artist/chuck-zwicky-mn0000126243</div></div>
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/11/20 1:28 AM, James Johnston via
ProAudio wrote:<br class="">
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<div class="">I must say that I am sorely tempted to see if I can get
somebody to whip up an app that measures effective bandwidth
of a PCM track at any common sampling rate.<br class="">
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<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Feb 10, 2020 at 10:15
PM mark whitehouse via ProAudio <<a href="mailto:proaudio@bach.pgm.com" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">proaudio@bach.pgm.com</a>>
wrote:<br class="">
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<div dir="ltr" class="">Following on from our discussion of around 18
months ago,
<div class="">I know in Australia there were moves to get some kind
of "truth in marketing" </div>
<div class="">in regards to High sample rate recordings.</div>
<div class="">And promoting the differences in standards that are now
available. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Essentially a standard that could be understood by and
promoted to consumers, musicians etc.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
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<div class="">It doesnt seem to have gone far and when you see things
like this</div>
<div class=""><a href="http://archimago.blogspot.com/2013/07/list-suspected-44-or-48khz-pcm.html" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">http://archimago.blogspot.com/2013/07/list-suspected-44-or-48khz-pcm.html</a> </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">It makes you wonder if things will improve.</div>
<div class="">Is there any consensus on getting this acknowledged? </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">regards</div>
<div class="">Mark <br clear="all" class="">
<div class="">
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